cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
MitsuruYamada
New Contributor III

A Chemical Thought Experiment: If two Hydrogen atoms were to collide, then a Hydrogen molecule will be formed?

Think xyz axis in space.

Assume there are two Hydrogen atoms on the x axis.

Assume they are heading toward each other along the x axis.

Then what do you predict will happen?

A Hydrogen molecule will necessarily be formed or not?

How about assuming the initial states of the two Hydrogen atoms to be both in 1S state?

Or rather how about assuming them to be 2Py and 2Pz states each?

I think the latter case seems more favorable for forming a Hydrogen bonding.

Because the electrical charge distribution might form a net attraction between all of the participant electrons and protons upon collision.

And if the bonding were to be formed, then after bonding are the protons oscillating?

After the bonding, are the electron clouds ocsillating too?

How do you muse?

P.S. If some net charge acceleration occurs upon the bondong process, then do you think that some electromagnetic radition accompanies? 

0 Kudos
21 Replies
MitsuruYamada
New Contributor III

Re: A Chemical Thought Experiment: If two Hydrogen atoms were to collide, then a Hydrogen molecule will be formed?

Think a number of freely flying Hydrogen atoms in space.

At normal temperature, that is, at T=300 Kelvin, the average speed of each Hydrogen atom is about 2.725Km/sec.

Each of the Hydrogen atom is, of course, composed from a proton and an electron.

But think that the mass ratio of them is 1836.  That is, the proton is 1836 times heavier than the electron.

If a near miss  were to happen between a pair of Hydrogen atoms that are freely flying, then how and what can stop the protons to form a chemical bond between the atoms?

If we imagine the proton as heavy as an air craft carrier, then the electron is just a tiny boat.

How can such a light weight electron work to stop the inertial movement of the very much heavier protons?

In a stable Hydrogen molecule, it may be certainly the Coulomb forces between the participant electrons and protons that enable the entire diatomic molecular structure.

What happens in the pair of Hydrogen atoms upon collision at all if they are to make a chemical bond?

0 Kudos
gkassnarayan
New Contributor II

Re: A Chemical Thought Experiment: If two Hydrogen atoms were to collide, then a Hydrogen molecule will be formed?

When two hydrogen atoms approach there might be electronic repuulsive forces that will not allow the molecule formation.  At higher temperatures and pressures sharing of the electrons to attain the helium configuration for each individual hydrogen atom paves way for the molecule formation.

MitsuruYamada
New Contributor III

Re: A Chemical Thought Experiment: If two Hydrogen atoms were to collide, then a Hydrogen molecule will be formed?

Can the Hydrogen atoms that are approaching toward each other obtain the state of electron sharing?

First of all, how shall we define the electron shared state quantitatively?

Second, how do the protons reach the state of electron sharing?

How does the process proceed from the system of two isolated Hydrogen atoms to the system of half-bonded, electron shared state of the two hydrogen atoms?

Is such a process possible to be simulated in a computer?

And how should we treat the protons?  As classical mechanistic particle, or as a quantum mechnaical particles?

From the stand point of view of electrons, can they have the proton sharing ability?

I think that the bonding process might be a kind of quantum mechanical transition.

It is a transition from two isolated Hydrogen atoms to fused Hydrogen molecule.

There is no intermediate state in between.

0 Kudos
cmcrosse
New Contributor

Re: A Chemical Thought Experiment: If two Hydrogen atoms were to collide, then a Hydrogen molecule will be formed?

Keep in mind that the electron is moving much, much faster than the proton, even if the proton is moving 2.725 Km/sec, the electron velocity is on the order of 10^4 Km/sec. This gives the electron some time to adapt to new electronic environments like a second electron cloud before the proton moves past. Of course, there has to be enough kinetic energy to keep pushing the electron into that environment without the electron just pulling the proton back.

As these two electron clouds are rearranging, there is a new potential energy well formed between the two. If the kinetic energy of the proton is enough to overcome the energy well then a molecule would not be formed. But, if the kinetic energy of the proton is not enough then I imagine it will either (a) slow and stop, or (b) oscillate in a mutually damped form as the energy of the molecule becomes translational energy, (c) oscillate in a harmonic fashion without decay if it happens to be resonant, (d) some combination of these states.

I guess it would be interesting to know whether the two electrons are of the same spin or opposite spin. If they are of the same spin then there would be some spin coupling, but if they are opposite then would it be more likely to undergo transition to the other spin or just not create a bond?

0 Kudos
gkassnarayan
New Contributor II

Re: A Chemical Thought Experiment: If two Hydrogen atoms were to collide, then a Hydrogen molecule will be formed?

The electrons of opposite spin get involved in bonding

0 Kudos
MitsuruYamada
New Contributor III

Re: A Chemical Thought Experiment: If two Hydrogen atoms were to collide, then a Hydrogen molecule will be formed?

No, Sirs!  No, Sirs!  No, Sirs!!

We must be careful when to use scientific words!

Both of protons and electrons are quantum mechanical particles.  So that, if we say that the velocities of this particle or that particle are these, then we lack the scientific rigor.  In quantum mechanics, we can't specify the direction and speed of any particle.  We are only allowed to speak about them using the quantum mecanical probability concept with their wave fucntions.

Actually I already have searched the behavior of two colliding systems.  It was rough approximate 1-dimensional computer simulation using time-dependent Schroedinger equation.  I set the two electrons as quantum mechanical particles and on the other side treated the protons as classical mechanical particles..  Regrettably, it did not show any possibility of stable molecule formation, like damping or oscillation or harmonic behavior.  So I felt strongly that I must treat this problem by using 4-body problem simulation.  I would like to repeat that the protons are not classical particles.  Otherwise, Hydrogen molecule cannot be formed. 

The main pillar that makes possible of the formation of the Hydrogen molecule is of course the Coulomb forces between the two electrons and two protons.  Do you think the electron spins are so critical and strong enough comparable to the Coulomb force to decide the Hydrogen molecule foramation and its continuation?

0 Kudos
MitsuruYamada
New Contributor III

Re: A Chemical Thought Experiment: If two Hydrogen atoms were to collide, then a Hydrogen molecule will be formed?

Today I have gone to Yaesu Book Center which is located in front of Tokyo station.

It is my hobby to buy and read books about quantum mechanics.

Today I bought a paper back "QUANTUM" written by Jim Al-Khalili, published from Phoenix.

Returning to my home, I soon began to read to know a surprising experimental result.

Please open page 16 and 17 of this book, and read them.

It is an experimantal report written by Markus Arndt and Anton Zeilinger.

The report says that they found the wave nature even for the buckyball molecules like C60 or C70.

The reprot says that the molecules showed the interference pattern in the grating experiment, the grating aperture being about 50 angstroms.

What matters is the huge molecular weight!

Usually we incline to link the quantum mechanical interference concept only with the light particles like electron or photon.

But think that a proton is 1836 times heavier than an electron.  Think that a carbon atom is 12 times heavier than a proton,  And finally think that a buckyball molecule C60 is 60 times theavier than a carbon atom.

The final numerical factor becomes 1,321,920.

That is, a buckyball molecule C60 is 1,321,920 times heavier than an electron!

So, because even such a heavy particle can show the quantum mechanical nature, the much lighter particle, that is, the proton which is only 1836 times heavy than an electron, must behave according to the quantum mechanical laws!

I think that it is no doubt that the Hydrogen-Hydrogen coupling occurs due to the quantum mechanical reason. 

0 Kudos
pyhsieh
New Contributor II

Re: A Chemical Thought Experiment: If two Hydrogen atoms were to collide, then a Hydrogen molecule will be formed?

Can you provide the algorithm or software package that you used for your quantum mechanical simulation of colliding hydrogen atoms? Experimental evidence shows that covalent bonding between hydrogen atoms occurs, so the fault must lie with the simulation if it fails to match observations. It is not possible to have a meaningful discussion without knowing the specific steps that were used to arrive at the conclusion. Please provide concrete details so that constructive feedback can be provided to improve the fidelity of your model.

0 Kudos
MitsuruYamada
New Contributor III

Re: Re: A Chemical Thought Experiment: If two Hydrogen atoms were to collide, then a Hydrogen molecule will be formed?

For the simulation of two colliding hydrogen atoms, I made the program by myself in True BASIC language.  I did not use any software package.  So I think that I know the algorithm which I implemented in the progarm in every nook and cranny.  But first, please be aware that the model system of the two colliding hydrogen atoms has two big approximations: the system is one-dimensional and the Coulomb interaction potential is replaced with mild Gaussian function.  Now open the attached files for you to know my algorithm.

0 Kudos